View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0008002 | ardour | features | public | 2020-04-10 10:28 | 2020-05-15 23:17 |
| Reporter | ahellquist | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | closed | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Platform | Some Other Linux | OS | Some Other Linux | OS Version | unknown |
| Product Version | 6.0-pre1 | ||||
| Summary | 0008002: Change the default session fader locations | ||||
| Description | On several occasions during the years I've been using Ardour. bad things have happened.. For instance, Connecting and launching Ardour to track a live concert some weeks ago made a massive feedback loop in the venue.... The reason was Ardour defaults to unity gain on both inputs and master and defaults to connecting every fader to inputs. I that particular case, It was a Behringer x32 that honored the Daw and it's suggested defaults fader positions for a fresh new session. i have had countless similar encounters, especially when bringing new Ardour computers to a gig or venue and not realizing it is in default danger mode. There has also been countless reports where new users asks "why Ardour is giving a nasty sound when they start it first time ever to get a first experience of the software. Some of them probably don't realize the cause and move to next Daw for testing. if Ardour at least could have the master all the way down (like any experienced and inexperienced sound guy would have when powering on their "physical" digital hardware mixer. This would never happen and most new users would probably figure out that the master volume is a key to get things going. I mean, People can easily pop speakers and other gear or ears without doing anything wrong. You dont get the chance to change defaults (auto input connections) until you blown your ears and/or speakers) | ||||
| Additional Information | This has been the default behavior for many Ardour versions and still is.. Why ? | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Maybe it should have said "default fader positions"... Sorry but I hope it makes sense anyway. |
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What other setting other than 0dB could possibly make sense ? I think you're really asking for a new feature of "ability to set a default fader position for current and future sessions" |
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Well, since all my nasty feedback loops during the years as well as presumable all virgin users getting terrified and moving away to other daws would have been happy campers, I would argue, Is there a particular reason that the master by default is above -infinity at all ? Unless there is a good reason to start with master at unity, I propose let it be at -inf If this should better be a user preference ( I still would suggest master at -inf) and let the user set preferred master level Unity or -inf and it would probably be a good idea to let the user also change default track fader to -inf I know that some (myself included) (and possibly many) users import a lot of tracks from clients and then move all faders to -inf for a start. Now with unity as default It is a bit time consuming (and sometimes dangerous).. I tend to group all tracks and then adjust the faders and remove the grouping. Having -inf as default would be very nice. Maybe more than nice, like a necessity ? I know this is an often used approach to mixing sessions. |
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The master fader (and master mute) can be automated. So they cannot be re/set on session-load without breaking automation. Loading an existing session and keeping output silent would need an additional (not automatable) mute-stage. |
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@x42 I am not discussing what happens when loading a session. I am after whats happening when a user creates a new session.. If Ardour is connected to a Mixer with microphnes on stage an a PA things go bad... As well as a first time user with a microphone and active monitors... An old session should of course load the settings as is. |
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This feedback issue is coming from Ardour monitoring, isn't it? If you configure it to let monitoring to the hardware, feedback due to Ardour should not occur? Maybe the config default should be set to hardware monitoring? |
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@joh Yes, that is correct, But changing the monitor behavior is not a solution to the issue here, I think. The user will perhaps not have equipment with hardware monitoring capabilities.. |
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re "why Ardour is giving a nasty sound when they start it first time ever to get a first experience of the software. " That should no longer be an issue. Until 5.12 Ardour's default were for use in a Studio with control-room where speakers and mics are in separate places. The default has been changed for 6.0, auto-input monitoring was disabled and tape-machine-mode enabled. This makes Ardour more useful on Laptops. By default Ardour starts without any tracks so the master-bus level of new sessions makes no difference at all. If master was initially silent, I think most newbies would rather give up because they don't hear anything when they import some files in the editor. |
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@x42 Ok, makes sense. But I did launch a new session with as many tracks as I would use when my laptop was connected to the x32 in a venue some months ago and that caused a massive feedback loop so I don't get why that could ever happen if that's the case.. The laptop was running 5.12 or some 6.0 pre and no special settings was made before and as soon as Ardour was started, the Behringer was giving feedback like crazy.. but if auto-input is disabled it would not have happened. I guess I was using the wizard and selecting Live recording and a number of tracks and for some reason auto-input was engaged... Ok thanks for the dialog |
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The change to the preferences was made on 2020-01-20. if you have used an earlier alpha version of Ardour6 and preferences were saved before then (or copied from Ardour5), you would still get feedback :( |
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"Ardour could have the master all the way down (like any sound guy would have when powering on their 'physical' digital hardware mixer)" That does make some sense. but the equivalent of "powering on" in a live environment is loading a session, (not creating one). You probably have everything set up (control surface mappings, tracks, busses probably with names) in a prepared session or session-template. So a preference "start silent, unmute on demand" can be useful. |
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I was using an early alpha version at that time so that's likely the cause of my nasty feedback experience. I too think, start silent would be handy in some situations/setups. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2020-04-10 10:28 | ahellquist | New Issue | |
| 2020-04-10 10:29 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021279 | |
| 2020-04-10 19:51 | paul | Note Added: 0021290 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:29 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021294 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:40 | x42 | Note Added: 0021295 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:40 | x42 | Category | bugs => features |
| 2020-04-10 22:43 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021296 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:44 | johmue-eo | Note Added: 0021297 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:48 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021298 | |
| 2020-04-10 22:51 | x42 | Note Added: 0021299 | |
| 2020-04-10 23:07 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021300 | |
| 2020-04-10 23:13 | x42 | Note Added: 0021301 | |
| 2020-04-10 23:18 | x42 | Note Added: 0021302 | |
| 2020-04-11 00:10 | ahellquist | Note Added: 0021303 | |
| 2020-05-15 23:17 | ahellquist | Status | new => closed |
| 2020-05-15 23:17 | ahellquist | Resolution | open => fixed |
