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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0008684ardourfeaturespublic2021-05-01 12:012021-05-01 12:02
ReporterMicaguay Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status newResolutionopen 
PlatformLinuxOSUbuntuStudioOS Version20.04.1 TLS
Summary0008684: Fader Automation, Gain Automation, Consolidate and Bouncing inside Ardour workflow.
DescriptionObjective: Trying to bounce or consolidate a region with processing, without affecting the actual stage.
Discovered problems and need to improve workflow if possible and considered relevant.

I understand the steps to reproduce the problem goes below, but in this case i'm saying what i did first, so you can understand after that the need or possible need of the solutions suggested. (The issue that affects Bouncing with Processing will be sent appart with details, but it's mentioned here to explain i don't know yet how that feature performs sd it's not working).

STEPS

1) I create a copy of a track without the content
2) I copy a complete region and paste it below in the new track
3) I make changes to the Fader Automation, in play mode affecting the places where there is a wave.
4) I make a new copy of the region in the PlayList(P), the new copy is there, with the same automation below, and i come back to the first one.
5) I make a Bouncing with processing (but nothing happens, this issue is something appart, i will fill a bug case appart with details)
6) I make a Consolidating with processing, and the first region is changed with the processing, in this case fader automation.
7) The fader automation below the region is still there, i don't need it for this region anymore, so as suggested in documentation or forums i clean it.
8) I go to the Copy of this region, and THE AUTOMATION IS GONE, the automation was not part of the region, but something appart, in no place we understand that,
and when cleaning the automation doesn't say something like "If you delete this automation, other copies of this region will not have this automation, as is not attached to regions but to tracks"
9) Then you have the track with processing but you lost your automation and you don't have it in the backup or New Copy of the region.
Leaving the automation would lead to problems as affects the region that already has the processing,

Considerations: Bouncing with processing is not working in my UbuntuStudio 20.04 with [Ardour 5.12.0 "Working Backwards" (rev 1:5.12.0-3ubuntu4) Intel 64-bit]

Because of this, i can't know exactly how it works, so if i repeat something that already works the same way, please forgive me.
Anyway the Copy Fader Automation to Gain Automation i think is good to have it.

The solutions or new features i think could be good (with permission, respect and gratitude to dev team, it's understood) would be:

FIRST POSSIBLE SOLUTION (not the best one -as the best would be having all automation in a per playlist item basis- but good as new feature, would be...)

(Described below as if already exists, as if you read the text from the future docs, i'm not english speaker so forgive my english, i speak italian and spanish native...)

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Fader Automation to Gain (Copy Fader Automation to Gain Automation)
When you make a "Fader Automation to Gain", the fader automation below the selected region will be copied to the Gain Automation above, you can select "Internal Edit Mode" and see the changes on your gain automation inside the region.
Be sure to clean the fader automation below the region if you don't need it anymore, as it will continue to affect the region itself.

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(I think the best way to do this would be affecting the selected regions and not the range as it would be harder to do it i think, and confusion for the user,
puting the option inside the Gain menu below Reset Envelope option "Fader Automation to Gain" would be great i think.)

The solution described DOESN'T SOLVE the problem of trying to bounce or consolidate regions with processing, that is having problems.



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SECOND POSSIBLE SOLUTION (together with the first one would be great new feature i think)

Allow the user to select if changes on Fader Automation, will affect Gain Automation above, Fader Automation itself or both.
Two little buttons on the left of the Automation State with G and F, being G for Gain Automation and F to Fader Automation.



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Fader Automation Buttons (F and G)
This buttons tells to the DAW, that actions made on the Fader Automation, should affect only the F(Fader Automation), G(Gain Automation), or both.
When no option is selected, actions will affect only Fader Automation itself.
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With this two solutions, and if Bouncing with Process works as i think (sending bounce to new track created after the original track)

You have this solutions (speaking to the user always)

1) If you want to have the track bounced with processing in a new track, you have it.
2) If you want to make Fader changes (like in vocal riding and other examples using the actual changes while playing tools) and attach that to Gain Automation (you can do it on the go, or after that with the Fader to Gain Automation copy)
3) If you want to make Fader and Gain automation changes at the same time (you can do it too, with both buttons pressed)
4) If you want to make a New Copy of regions in the PlayList you should make a "Fader to Gain Automation" first, and then the NewCopy to Playlist if you plan to delete or change fader automation in other PlayList items, as they share all track automation.

** CONSOLIDATE WITH PROCESSING **
This should be discouraged as it works now and suggest the Bouncing with or without Processing, except if you can copy all automation with each NewCopy on the PlayList,
and allow "Unlink Automation" to make changes to automation without affecting other automations on other copies of that playlist.
Until that happens or if it's not possible, Consolidate with Processing should be discouraged and suggested the Bouncing with or without processing.


hope this help in the discussion on this topic, and if you let me know of topics related that i couldn't find, or you want me to expand on any feature
or participate in the discussion i will be glad, i have some tech skills, to at less understand the complexity some things could suposse.

Finally thanks for your time, your effort and this marvelous piece of love to our world.

thanks again and as soon as i receive the message i will ASAP send answer if needed, in any other case, i will be here at your command.

Micaguay
Tagsbounce ardour, bouncing, bouncing ardour, bouncing with processing, consolidate, fader automation, freeze track, gain automation, New Copy Play List

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Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay New Issue
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: bounce ardour
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: bouncing
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: bouncing ardour
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: bouncing with processing
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: consolidate
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: fader automation
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: freeze track
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: gain automation
2021-05-01 12:01 Micaguay Tag Attached: New Copy Play List