0008192: Automation recording in touch mode does not start until the value of the physical knob matches the value on the automation curve - MantisBT

ID	Project	Category	View Status	Date Submitted	Last Update

0008192	ardour	bugs	public	2020-06-02 13:01	2020-06-05 14:08

Reporter	inFlowiaLab	Assigned To
Priority	normal	Severity	minor	Reproducibility	always
Status	new	Resolution	open
Platform	Linux	OS	Ubuntu Studio	OS Version	19.10 x64
Product Version	6.0

Summary	0008192: Automation recording in touch mode does not start until the value of the physical knob matches the value on the automation curve
Description	(in title)
Steps To Reproduce	Create automation for any parameter. Put it in touch mode, bind the knob of the physical MIDI controller to the automation value. Unscrew knob to maximum. Choose a place on the track where the value of the automation curve is lower than the maximum and enable transport to start recording automation. Automation will not be recorded until I lower the value of the knob to a value less than or equal to the value of automation on the curve. The same thing happens if at the very beginning you unscrew the knob to the minimum and start recording in the place where the curve is above the minimum.
Additional Information	As a result, in order to properly record automation in touch mode, I have to turn on the transport and quickly turn the knob from minimum to maximum so that the curve starts responding to my turns of the knob. This is a little bad because sometimes I do not want to knock down the value on the knob because it was matched to the desired value.
Tags	automation

x42 2020-06-02 19:29 administrator ~0024350	Is this with generic MIDI control surface, one that is not touch-sensitive and not motorized? If so this is intentional. Ardour will ignore al events from the controller until the controller matches the current value to prevent discontinuities. You can configure this in the generic MIDI settings dialog.

inFlowiaLab 2020-06-03 06:21 reporter ~0024361	I can not find how this is configured. Edit -> Preferences -> Control Surfaces -> Generic MIDI -> Show Protocol Settings... Which of the settings is responsible for this? > Is this with generic MIDI control surface, one that is not touch-sensitive and not motorized? I'm not sure I understand the question. If you ask about my real physical MIDI keyboard, then there is no motor in it and I did not turn on the “motorized” checkbox in the settings of Generic MIDI. As for sensitivity to touch, I'm not sure. This is not an expensive AKAI MPK mini. Probably there is no sensitivity to touch. I just could not find on the Internet what this function means.

paul 2020-06-04 15:55 administrator ~0024379	In which case this behavior is exactly as intended. Consider what would happen if we didn't do things this way.

inFlowiaLab 2020-06-05 08:54 reporter ~0024396	If automation in the touch mode responds immediately to the rotation of the knob and starts recording everything will be fine. I do not see a problem. If I don’t touch the knob and turn on the playback, nothing is recorded. If I turn it a little, then immediately at this point a new point equal to the knob value should appear on the curve. I do not understand what is dangerous or not normal in such behavior. This is how the “touch mode” should work from my point of view. Although I see one problem - if the previous point of the curve was not equal to the first value caught from the knob, then Ardor will probably connect these points with a straight line and get a linear change in the parameter from the old point to the new one. Nobody will like it, but there are two ways to solve it: 1 Leave as is. Let the user put one point in front of the new recorded segment, which will align the previous segment which, due to the recording, has turned into a linear ascent or descent. 2 Create at the moment of the start of the automation recording not 1 but 2 first points, so that the first one is the largest equal to the previous one (this will exclude the linear ascent or descent that we want to avoid) and the second point immediately after the first one and it will already be equal in value to the value knoba. In order for this not to turn all further recording into a square curve, you need to enter a time interval that will indicate how much time should elapse between two adjacent acquisitions of the knob value so that they are considered to belong to one automation record act. I think this value can be taken from the parameter "automation sampling interval" which already exists in the settings.

paul 2020-06-05 14:08 administrator ~0024403	Touch mode makes ZERO sense unless it is possible to detect the start (and end) of the touch. When you use a mouse, this is done by using the button-press and button-release events. When you use a touch-sensitive control surface, this is done using the messages the surfaces sends when it detects the start and end of a touch. Touch mode automation write using a non-touch-sensitive control surface is non-sensical. Believe me, we've tried implementing it several times over 20 years because we keep forgetting how nonsensical it really is. We are not going to use timers to try to "fake" touch-sensitivity.

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2020-06-02 13:01	inFlowiaLab	New Issue
2020-06-02 13:01	inFlowiaLab	Tag Attached: automation
2020-06-02 19:29	x42	Note Added: 0024350
2020-06-02 19:29	x42	Status	new => feedback
2020-06-03 06:21	inFlowiaLab	Note Added: 0024361
2020-06-03 06:21	inFlowiaLab	Status	feedback => new
2020-06-04 15:55	paul	Note Added: 0024379
2020-06-05 08:54	inFlowiaLab	Note Added: 0024396
2020-06-05 14:08	paul	Note Added: 0024403